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Topics - ClassicalLiberal.Theist

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Philosophy / God's Omniscience?
« on: October 28, 2021, 02:57:24 pm »
Not sure if anyone still chats here, but if you're reading this, good to "see" you. I'm having a hard time working through Aquinas' (and Feser's) demonstration of God's omniscience.

Feser appeals to the PPC in order to prove God's omniscience (since God is the cause of all things, all things must exist in God in some way); however, I don't see why we need to ground things in God by way of knowledge. Meaning, can't we just say that all things exist in God because of his omnipotence, his capacity to do all things? That seems just as good to me. For example, when a robot creates something, that thing must exist in some way in the robot, but we don't say it has knowledge. Rather, the robot just possesses the ability to create that thing. This line of argument, as far as I can tell, can be applied to God as well.

As for Aquinas, he states that immateriality is the knowledge-making-property of beings. He then continues, since God is the highest degree of immateriality, he must also be omniscient. But this doesn't seem right to me. I think that knowledge entails immateriality, but I don't know if this necessarily works the other way around.

Hopefully someone has some answers. Thanks!

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Theology and religion / Tough Questions for Christianity
« on: December 10, 2020, 10:27:21 am »
My friend has started a bible study that he holds every week or so; however, it isn't really a "bible study." We discuss philosophical difficulties about Christianity or theism in general. Seeing as I am a recent near-reconvert of Christianity, I am not well informed about all of these issues so I figured I could take his questions here. Pointing me to more indepth resources would be beneficial, if not preferable.:

1. If God knew man would sin, why did He create man?
1a. Why did He make man in general?
1b. If free will doesn't exist, how does that affect your answers to the previous questions (if at all)?
2. If God is so loving, why did he kill so many people in the OT (He is still the same God!)?
2a. Can we reconcile these actions morally?
3. Is it possible to morally justify the harsh and prima facie immoral laws in the OT?
3a. Could you demonstrate that?
4. How do we reconcile the existence of evil and God from a logical and evidential standpoint?
5. How do we reconcile the existnece of hell and God morally from an evidential and/logical standpoint?
5a. Is there biblical support for things like annihilationism or universalism?

That is all for now. Sorry if these are elementary questions, I just don't have solid answers.

Thanks :)

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Philosophy / Dealing with an Objection to the Aristotelian Argument
« on: October 30, 2020, 05:55:29 am »
The objection: it is in principle possible that physical things or at least things other than something pure act can lack potentiality. Therefore, you cannot deduce God's existence from the existence of motion.

To illustrate what this means, take any physical object whatsoever. You can imagine a possible world in which a physical object lacks the potentiality for things like local motion or change. This would exhuast the possibility of it having potentiality, all the while not qualifying it as something which is pure act: it may still be susceptible to time, it is composite, it isn't all powerful, etc. Therefore, the argument from change is false (well, at least it isn't deductive).

I would like at the outset, to make some clarifying statements about why the argument from motion proceeds as it does. In many, if not all variations of the argument from motion, it starts with the premise "change occurs", or something synonymous. The reason for this move is soley to establish the reality of the metaphysical categories act and potency. It is not, and I repeat, it is not the premise by which the existence of God is directly derived. To put it in a crude syllogistic form:

P1 Change occurs
P2 So, actuality and potentiality exist
P3 If actuality and potentiality exist, then God exists
C Therefore, God exists.

After the establishment of change, we get act and potency. From this, the argument (I have Edward Feser's argument in mind) then applies and seeks to understand the conclusion when these metaphysical categories are applied to actualization which is of a vertical sort, rather than a horizontal one. Meaning, it is concerned with the continued actualization of a potential, rather then the actualization of a potential throughout points in time. The argument deduces God's existence from the fact that there are objects that exist which are being continually actualizaed, not the actualization of potentialities happens in a temporal manner.

To make even more preliminary statements, however, I would like to make a distinction between the ways in which a thing can lack potentiality. These two I have labeled underivative existence and derivative existence. The first we would call God, and the second would be some sort of being which lacks the capacity to change. Understanding now what the argument's objective is, take any physical object. By virtue of being a physical object, regardless of whether or not "it lacks the capacity for change", it is always physically composite. Cups, spoons, houses, and boeing 747s are the way they are because of the various arrangement of atoms involved. Atoms can be broken down into protons, neutrons, and electrons, and further those things can be logically divided by space (if it is .0000000000000000001cm long, then we can say it is composed of two parts which are .0000000000000000001/2cm in length). Strictly speaking, anything in space is divisible (composite), and everything physical is in space. Knowing this, we can then say that call physical things are dependent on their subsidiary parts for their existence. Meaning, the arrangement of parts actualize the potentiality for there to be a whole. Therefore, in order to appease the causal principle, we must then posit some being which is causally prior to this. You can run this game ad infinitum, but ultimately to satisfy the chain of causality, you must at some point come to the existnece of an "unmoved mover" or "pure actuality". Physical things may very well lack the capacity to change, but it is in the very nature of the things which deems it something of derivative existence. You must therefore appeal to that which is of underived existence.


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Theology and religion / Good books that argue for christianity?
« on: September 22, 2020, 09:47:15 am »
I am thinking mainly historically involved books, but anything would be fine.

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I'm just wondering. How much weight do performative contradictions have, if any?

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Philosophy / Feser on Paleyen Design Arguments
« on: February 22, 2020, 09:23:35 pm »
I am working through Fesers book Neo-Scholastic Essays and in chapter 7, he distinguishes the metaphysical assumptions made between the fifth way and the ID-style design arguments; the fifth way assumes that teleology is intrinsic, whereas the ID-style arguments assume that teleology is extrinsic. He then concludes (if I am understanding him correctly) that the consistent thomist would reject the ID-style arguments on the grounds that it assumes an incorrect view of teleology; however, I am inclined to think this is false. Take the following argument:

P1 The bacterial flagellum exists
P2 The probability the bacterial flagellum existing is more likely on theism rather than atheism
C Therefore, God exists

This doesn't seem to me to entail that biological organsims can't have intrinsic teleology, but I may be wrong. I think the mantra of "irreducible-complexity" may be the source of Feser's objection. I think if the claim ID-theorists make was that some natural phenomena can only be explained by theism (is literally irreducibly-complex), than perhaps Feser may have a point, but I am not even really sure if that stands in contradiction with the notion of finality.

I suppose the question I am trying to have answered is: Does finality falsify ID-style theistic arguments? Why or why not?

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Philosophy / Why should I accept natural law theory?
« on: February 15, 2020, 07:49:31 pm »
I see no good arguments in either direction. It seems to me that you either accept the definition of whats good or you don't, and I see no reason to accept it. I also see no reason that I ought to follow the conclusions either, because there really is no oughtness about it as far as I can tell.

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Philosophy / The Necessity of Creation, Revisited
« on: February 08, 2020, 11:14:24 am »
The thomist is commited to the idea that God wills himself necessarily, and wills other things in willing himself. This essentially saves creation from existing necessarily in some strict sense; however, insofar as there is no counterfactual possibility in God, then things exist of necessity even if they are not strictly entailed by his being. Although, this might not be as bad as I may have first thought. Lets say that the big bang was the beginning of creation. So, God caused the big bang necessarily, but in a way that isn't entailed by his being. Given that indeterminacy is true and that conscious agents have freewill, then there is still an opprotunity for the "chips to fall where they may", so to speak, and in some weaker sense saving the usefulness or legitimacy of modality. We would then, however, be commited to the idea that there is no possible world in which the big bang is false, but also that there is a possible world where I didn't make this post.

This seems to me to be a very odd conclusion, but nonetheless I think it is probably correct. Thoughts?

p.s. Its pretty quiet around here, which sucks. I'll probably post more in the future with the hope of stemming more conversation.

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Philosophy / The Argument from Fine-Tuning and Thomism
« on: December 06, 2019, 10:53:03 pm »
As I understand it, the thomist doesn't believe that laws of nature exist in the sense of its contemporary understanding; rather, the thomist would say that how a thing behaves is built into the thing itself. For example, water freezes at 32 degrees not because the "laws of nature" dictate such, but because it is inherent in water to do so. My question is then, how exactly would a fine-tuning argument be presented on this analysis of laws, if at all?

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Chit-chat / Ads on the Forum?
« on: November 25, 2019, 09:17:25 pm »
For the past few days every time I log in, I keep finding ads somewhere at the top of the page. Is any else experiencing the same thing?

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Philosophy / God and the Necessity of Creation
« on: November 15, 2019, 02:20:29 pm »
How could the universe be truly contingent if God could have never decided to create some other universe, because that would involve changing his mind, which is impossible. My thought is that we might be nearing the conclusion of a modal collapse, but I think at best this alone leaves us with a universe which has some sort of "weak necessity". As in, its conception may have been necessary but the events that play out could be contingent, unless you're a determinist, which I'm not.

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Philosophy / A Question on the Types of Actualizations
« on: October 25, 2019, 12:37:11 pm »
Feser once said in a debate that all change is the actualizing of some potential but not vice versa. This "not vice versa" means sustaining a thing in existence or perhaps just sustaining a thing in its current state. I suppose my question is then, how exactly do we phrase a thing being sustained in existence using the act/potency distinction? More generally, a thing being sustained in existence is the actualization of a potential, but what potential?

This "difficulty" stems from the debate Feser had with Oppy. His objection, at its heart, was that once a thing already actually is, no longer needs a mover because it just is already actual. He then goes on to explain further, that if we take some other route to defend the CP, we end up in some sort of vicious regression; however, I have very little doubt that he was wrong, because the obejction as far as I can tell, is built on a crude understanding of AT metaphysics.

I think that we could either reject the CP, reject that sustaining something is actually the actualization of a potential, or figure out some other way to phrase this sort of thing, but I fear that any other way to phrase the situation will fall prey to the same difficulties.

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