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Philosophy / Re: A list of arguments for atheism
« on: May 28, 2020, 12:48:08 am »
I agree, but I think it's still important to have at least some tentative theodicies in case someone finds the evidential problem of evil compelling. We could always go with skeptical theism and hold that the positive case for God still makes God's existence more likely than not even if we consider PoE. But having (at least tentative) theodicies can be very helpful, especially for people who aren't as convinced of the natural theological arguments as we are.
With that in mind, I do think Pruss's blink of an eye response is the best (http://alexanderpruss.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-blink-of-eye-response-to-problem-of.html?m=1) combined with soul building, free will, etc.
Robin Collins also has an interesting idea (the "connection building theodicy") that is worth exploring. And there is the idea (Adams's) that those who suffer horrendous evils paradoxically gain the privilege of uniting themselves more deeply with the suffering Christ, a dignity that lasts forever (especially in blissful Heaven).
I think the problem of animal suffering might actually be more complicated than that of human pain. This is because, even though human suffering is a lot more serious, shocking and relevant than that of animals, it is much easier to come up with theodicies for humans: free will and soul building can make good sense for human beings, but not for irrational animals.
For animal pain, I think the best bet is also to believe they go to heaven (thus invoking Pruss's blink of an eye response), which (contrary to Feser) is an idea that makes quite a lot of sense to me, and seems in line with the principle of plenitude (having animals in heaven surely seems a good thing to me, something that gives glory and diversity to God's creation). I find Dougherty's idea of animal theosis (animals becoming rational, Narnia-esque creatures who can then make sense of their own past sufferings) to be a bit too radical; it certainly would raise the complexity of theism; but I am open to it as a possibility. If the Narnia view is true, then animal suffering can be given something similar to soul building theodicies, which helps a lot and would solve the problem, I think.
Without the "Narnia" solution, maybe we can make use of an ingenious "Great Story" theodicy. The idea that suffering, pain and evil actually contribute to creation being good in a similar way that they make a movie or story good, exciting, or beautiful. Evil being conquered is a beautiful thing. So long as there's heaven in the end and the victims are "compensated for" (and infinite heaven can more than make up for any finite time of pain), I find some plausibility in that idea. I often wonder that maybe the joy of heaven could even be increased with past knowledge of suffering (think of the goodness of a feeling of "relief", or forgiveness, or redemption, or survival). Animal suffering could contribute to the Great Story just like human suffering does. I really do wonder. It's not obvious to me that a possible world in which no suffering or sin EVER happens and heaven is real from the very start, would be better than a world in which suffering and sin are present in the beginning, forming a great epic which ultimately ends with eternal heaven of joy and bliss.
With that in mind, I do think Pruss's blink of an eye response is the best (http://alexanderpruss.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-blink-of-eye-response-to-problem-of.html?m=1) combined with soul building, free will, etc.
Robin Collins also has an interesting idea (the "connection building theodicy") that is worth exploring. And there is the idea (Adams's) that those who suffer horrendous evils paradoxically gain the privilege of uniting themselves more deeply with the suffering Christ, a dignity that lasts forever (especially in blissful Heaven).
I think the problem of animal suffering might actually be more complicated than that of human pain. This is because, even though human suffering is a lot more serious, shocking and relevant than that of animals, it is much easier to come up with theodicies for humans: free will and soul building can make good sense for human beings, but not for irrational animals.
For animal pain, I think the best bet is also to believe they go to heaven (thus invoking Pruss's blink of an eye response), which (contrary to Feser) is an idea that makes quite a lot of sense to me, and seems in line with the principle of plenitude (having animals in heaven surely seems a good thing to me, something that gives glory and diversity to God's creation). I find Dougherty's idea of animal theosis (animals becoming rational, Narnia-esque creatures who can then make sense of their own past sufferings) to be a bit too radical; it certainly would raise the complexity of theism; but I am open to it as a possibility. If the Narnia view is true, then animal suffering can be given something similar to soul building theodicies, which helps a lot and would solve the problem, I think.
Without the "Narnia" solution, maybe we can make use of an ingenious "Great Story" theodicy. The idea that suffering, pain and evil actually contribute to creation being good in a similar way that they make a movie or story good, exciting, or beautiful. Evil being conquered is a beautiful thing. So long as there's heaven in the end and the victims are "compensated for" (and infinite heaven can more than make up for any finite time of pain), I find some plausibility in that idea. I often wonder that maybe the joy of heaven could even be increased with past knowledge of suffering (think of the goodness of a feeling of "relief", or forgiveness, or redemption, or survival). Animal suffering could contribute to the Great Story just like human suffering does. I really do wonder. It's not obvious to me that a possible world in which no suffering or sin EVER happens and heaven is real from the very start, would be better than a world in which suffering and sin are present in the beginning, forming a great epic which ultimately ends with eternal heaven of joy and bliss.