Author Topic: God and the Necessity of Creation  (Read 211 times)

ClassicalLiberal.Theist

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God and the Necessity of Creation
« on: November 15, 2019, 02:20:29 pm »
How could the universe be truly contingent if God could have never decided to create some other universe, because that would involve changing his mind, which is impossible. My thought is that we might be nearing the conclusion of a modal collapse, but I think at best this alone leaves us with a universe which has some sort of "weak necessity". As in, its conception may have been necessary but the events that play out could be contingent, unless you're a determinist, which I'm not.

Ouros

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Re: God and the Necessity of Creation
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 03:25:45 pm »
But if God had decided from all eternity that there was another world, that wouldn't involve any changing of his mind contrary to what you said: it would be altogether another situation.

Ofc, I'm not gonna pretend that this solve entirely the problem: for it seems to imply there's still some contingency in the will of God, which is, given divine simplicity, God Himself. This paper from Alexander Pruss would be on point: http://alexanderpruss.com/papers/On3ProblemsOfDivineSimplicity.html

Dominik

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Re: God and the Necessity of Creation
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2019, 02:31:01 am »
I think what could help is a softer version of divine simplicity. I am certain that DS is true, but the question is, how strong need it be? If I remember correctly Vallicella has also toyed with the idea of attributing accidental mental states to God.

ClassicalLiberal.Theist

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Re: God and the Necessity of Creation
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2019, 08:59:55 am »
I think what could help is a softer version of divine simplicity. I am certain that DS is true, but the question is, how strong need it be? If I remember correctly Vallicella has also toyed with the idea of attributing accidental mental states to God.

I think the issue I'm trying to get at is more of a timelessness problem. Although divine simplicity brings about its own set of problems with respect to things like mental states, it seems to me to be the case the issue wouldstill be present with a being which was composite as well.

I think any weaker version of DS is going to involve the affirmation of real composition of essense/existence in God, and to me, this is undesirable.

Dominik

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Re: God and the Necessity of Creation
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 03:09:04 pm »
I think what could help is a softer version of divine simplicity. I am certain that DS is true, but the question is, how strong need it be? If I remember correctly Vallicella has also toyed with the idea of attributing accidental mental states to God.

I think the issue I'm trying to get at is more of a timelessness problem. Although divine simplicity brings about its own set of problems with respect to things like mental states, it seems to me to be the case the issue wouldstill be present with a being which was composite as well.

I think any weaker version of DS is going to involve the affirmation of real composition of essense/existence in God, and to me, this is undesirable.

For me too. Iīm reading more about Scotus and the idea of a formal distinction. Although I will probably never affirm anything like univocal language, I think the formal distinction isnīt falling prey to the charge of bringing in composition. This at least seems to me so superficially.
Ouros linked paper by Pruss was a real help. Although I donīt think that we can ever solve all the problems of DS by our reason alone, without witnessing Gods essence, the issue doesnīt seem so pressing to me anymore.

ClassicalLiberal.Theist

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Re: God and the Necessity of Creation
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2019, 11:19:02 am »
I don't see how a formal distinction could really avoid bringing in composition while remaining coherent. The idea of formal distinctions, as I understand them seems to be contradictory. How could the attributes of God be univocal and at the same time not distinct from one another; that omnipotence and timelessness are different but actually the same? I think if pressed, the scotist would devolve into affirming a conceptual distinction.

Although, from what I understand, something is simple iff it is not seperable (to Scotus). Scotus would be correct according to this definition of simplicty but would fail, atleast on a thomistic analysis, to be the most ontologically absolute thing. To Thomas (and to me), Scotus' "formal distinction" is really just a real distinction under a different light.

Dominik

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Re: God and the Necessity of Creation
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 05:46:06 am »
This Iīm not sure about, certainly the guys from The SMithy would qualm with your formulation, however like I said Iīm still a beginner at Scotus, so I donīt go any further. If a problem with the thomistic DS is perceived however, I still believe that a weaker DS is the key and that the supposed composition would be only appearing if the thomistic metaphysics were presupposed. But I also donīt think that there is the problem of necessity if God as unchanging being canīt change his mind. I canīt give an exhaustive account here though.